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Sine Wave Inverter Generator or on-board Inverter?
Which to choose?
Saturday,31 August, 2013
8:09 pm
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I’ve been living aboard my wonderful narrowboat for 4 years now and recently fried my on-board inverter.  It’s not a biggie as I’m permanently moored with a shore-line.  However, when I take her our cruising I do miss having electrics and am now looking to either replace the inverter (with a 3000w + so my washing machine works – and I know about using a cool wash etc) OR buy a 2600-3000w suitcase generator.

 

What are the pros and cons for both?  Which would you choose and why?

 

Thank you in advance for your input.

Sunday,1 September, 2013
8:27 am
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I just replied to this at length and then my b****y browser crashed and I lost it. Ah well, here we go again!

If you’re on your mooring most of the time, do you really need your washing machine when you’re out cruising? If you’re only out for a week or two at a time you’re in the same situation as millions of other holiday makers. Enjoy the break and do your washing when you get back to your mooring.

With regard to inverter choice, I was in a similar situation a while ago. Like you, I also considered a suitcase generator. I discounted the suitcase generator though because something powerful enough to run a standard domestic washing machine was going to cost me upwards of £2,500 and was too heavy to be practical. The Honda models I looked at were over 60KG so would be very difficult to store and to take on and off the boat.

The cost of a 3000W pure sine inverter was too much for me too so, rather than fit an inverter big enough to power standard domestic appliances, I looked for appliances which would work with a more modest inverter. The end result was a 1600W Sterling pure sine inverter which is more than enough to power our new twin tub washing machine and Henry vacuum cleaner.

The twin tub’s maximum draw is 180W so my partner Sally can use it all day if she wants to… and she frequently does. The washing machine doesn’t need plumbing in so it does need to be manually filled and emptied, but Sally hasn’t found that much of a problem.

The vacuum cleaner uses 1200W so, again, the inverter can handle it without a problem.

That’s my solution. It may not suit you though. If I had to choose between a beefy inverter and a generator – and I had the money for both – I would go for the inverter. If you decide to go for the inverter you also need to remember that you need a large enough battery bank to provide power for it and a suitable means of charging your large battery bank.

I hope this helps.

 

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Sunday,1 September, 2013
11:00 am
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Lady Isoult Tibby-Cattistock said
I’ve been living aboard my wonderful narrowboat for 4 years now and recently fried my on-board inverter.  It’s not a biggie as I’m permanently moored with a shore-line.  However, when I take her our cruising I do miss having electrics and am now looking to either replace the inverter (with a 3000w + so my washing machine works – and I know about using a cool wash etc) OR buy a 2600-3000w suitcase generator.

 

What are the pros and cons for both?  Which would you choose and why?

 

Thank you in advance for your input.

Unfortunately its difficult to compare the two as they each have a separate purpose. Ideally you need both.

I would certainly have a large pure sine wave inverter installed, with enough power to run your washing machine. This would allow a wash whilst cruising with the engine alternator(s) offsetting the large power drain from the batteries.

When not cruising, a smaller suitcase inverter/generator could be used to keep batteries topped up via mains charger. It doesn’t have to be powerful enough to run the washing machine by itself since again that could be powered from your inverter with the generator and charger combination offsetting the current drain from batteries.

The Kipor IG2600 suitcase inverter/generator provides 2300 watts continuous, 2600 watts peak. Its available for as little £525. There is a cheap LPG option for it as well – I have one.

Your choice depends to a large degree on your existing battery charging capabilities both from engine and mains charger plus the size of domestic battery bank. If you can provide this info I could offer more specific advice.

Regards – Richard –
Ecky Thump

Sunday,1 September, 2013
1:07 pm
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Mi Lady,

The above answers accepted.

I can give at least a personal recommendation for the Victron 3000va inverter charger. This will happily cope with continuous loads up to 2.5 Kw.

Expensive yes but I have used it at home permanently for the last 9 years or so.

It is always on line and does not seem to use much battery power when it is not providing for any ac power needs. Granted I have a much larger battery bank than you will have on a boat but a single 45 watt solar panel will be more than capable of matching any drain from the inverter.

Yes it does use some power but is meant to be left powered up all the time.

Yes it will run any type of ac equipment from your pc to your washing machine.

No I am not in any connected with Victron or their suppliers.

Sunday,1 September, 2013
2:31 pm
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That’s how uneducated I am in these matters… I thought a genny that provided enough output would be like having a weaker shore-line as it would be plugged in to where my shore-line currently enters the boat.

I’m attaching pictures of my current set up because I don’t know what they are :)

 

CIMG1680.jpgImage EnlargerCIMG1679.jpgImage EnlargerCIMG1678.jpgImage Enlarger

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Sunday,1 September, 2013
2:40 pm
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I have posted before that my Candy Compact runs OK with my Victron 1600 psw – may be a cheaper option for you.  Running a full sized washer will need a large battery bank.  As Paul said, if you are not cc’ing do you really need to be able to use it?

Retired; Somerset/Dorset border when not out and about on Lucy Lowther

Days without name and hours without number

http://thelovelylisanarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk
 
Sunday,1 September, 2013
2:47 pm
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My washing machine is a Bosch Exxel, relatively new and was very expensive so I’m not looking to swap it out any time soon;  would prefer to find a solution to run it albeit on a cool wash :)

 

It also needs to run my desktop computer, dual monitor setup – hairdryer – microwave and at a push the tumbledryer function on my WM :D

 

Although I’m not cc’ing at the moment, I’d like to think I’ll be doing it soon.  I like the idea of living on the cut, being that little bit more free but need to feel secure in functioning as conveniently as I can if I take the plunge.  Luckily I have the luxury of getting it right before making that decision.

 

PS:  the genny option means I don’t have to increase my battery bank?

Sunday,1 September, 2013
3:24 pm
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I don’t know which of the Bosch exxcel washing machines you have but the one I found doing a search for the model is rated at 2.3KW. You will need an inverter which will handle this. It would need to be slightly more powerful than the inverter you currently have, and you would also need to double your battery bank to accommodate your washing machine and hair dryer. You also need to check what your hair dryer is rated at. You might also want to check your vacuum cleaner, iron, and hair straighteners if you have them.

As a matter if interest, how did you fry your inverter? What were you trying to run on it?

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Sunday,1 September, 2013
9:37 pm
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Lady Isoult Tibby-Cattistock said
My washing machine is a Bosch Exxel, relatively new and was very expensive so I’m not looking to swap it out any time soon;  would prefer to find a solution to run it albeit on a cool wash :)

 

It also needs to run my desktop computer, dual monitor setup – hairdryer – microwave and at a push the tumbledryer function on my WM :D

 

Although I’m not cc’ing at the moment, I’d like to think I’ll be doing it soon.  I like the idea of living on the cut, being that little bit more free but need to feel secure in functioning as conveniently as I can if I take the plunge.  Luckily I have the luxury of getting it right before making that decision.

 

PS:  the genny option means I don’t have to increase my battery bank?

The power rating (wattage) will be shown on your Bosch machine rating plate which will be needed since there is more than one version of the Exxcel.

As it seems you are looking at the cheapest option to power it, and it does take the 2300 watts that Paul mentions, the Kipor IG2600 generator may be marginal to power it. It would however easily cope with all your other needs. 

It may therefore be safer to look at a higher power model. Hyundai offer a range of inverter/generators up to 3200 watts continuous with the largest only a little over £1000, although this one falls outside the suitcase category. See here.

If your budget allows, a replacement inverter could be bought which covers all your needs bar the washing machine, to save having to run the generator all the time.

Regards – Richard –
Ecky Thump

Monday,2 September, 2013
8:17 am
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Hi there

 

Others who have commented about inverters and generators above know far more about them than me so I won’t attempt to add anything to your specific question.

 

With regards to the situation you’ve highlighted though, it seems to me that you have got two areas you’re trying cover 1. part permanently moored and 2. part cruising, the latter of which I assume is the lessor. If you approach this from the main permanently moored requirement, then I’d have thought that an Inverter (of the right size of course) is the only way to go so as to provide you with the convenience of electrics at the flick of the switch at whatever day of the week or time of day it is and whether you need electrics whilst you’re out i.e. putting the washing machine on when you go out to run through its cycle without having to leave the generator on.

 

It may be that to achieve your desired needs for electrics both on and off grid, then the option of one may not satisfy both and unless you’re able to consider a compromise you may find it necessary to get both an inverter and a generator.

 

It’s always interesting to get a closure to a topic, so let us know what you decide is the best option for you.

 

Regards,

Keith

 

 

Enjoying the Dream ( Keith & Nicky http://narrowboatboysontour.bl…..gspot.com/ )

Monday,2 September, 2013
9:59 am
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Just to put my five-penny worth in, the Victron Multi-plus range of inverters have a power assist function that enables to inverter to ‘top up’ the power supplied by the shoreline or generator. We have been plugged into some very low power shorelines over the years anbd can confirm it works very well. So you could use the Kipor generator if you want.

 

Regards

Pete

Living retirement in the slow lane.

20 years hiring, 6 years of shared ownership and a Continuous Cruiser since 2007 but still learning!

Monday,2 September, 2013
10:37 am
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One other point which I assume is correct but I stand to be corrected.

You would be advised to run your engine to power the alternator when using the washing machine, at least during the heating cycle otherwise you will comletely drain your battery bank, unless it is very large.  If the w/m draws 2300w that is almost 200 amps at 12v.  My domestic alternator is 70A, so you would still be drawing 130A.  I understand that batteries do not like heavy discharge so regular use will greatly shorten the life of your batteries.

Perhaps others can confirm this.

Retired; Somerset/Dorset border when not out and about on Lucy Lowther

Days without name and hours without number

http://thelovelylisanarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk
 
Monday,2 September, 2013
10:46 am
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That is quite accurate Alan.

 

Monday,2 September, 2013
12:29 pm
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Paul Smith said
I don’t know which of the Bosch exxcel washing machines you have but the one I found doing a search for the model is rated at 2.3KW. You will need an inverter which will handle this. It would need to be slightly more powerful than the inverter you currently have, and you would also need to double your battery bank to accommodate your washing machine and hair dryer. You also need to check what your hair dryer is rated at. You might also want to check your vacuum cleaner, iron, and hair straighteners if you have them.

As a matter if interest, how did you fry your inverter? What were you trying to run on it?

I had a crack appear in my exhaust which filled the cockpit with black diesel dust particles which were then sucked into the inverters fan.  As you know, the dust is carbon and conducts electricity rather well which in turn fried the circuit boards :D

 

Monday,2 September, 2013
12:34 pm
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I’m not after the cheapest solution;  I’m more for an easy everything will work option.  I think I was liking the genny option as it would have been a case of unplugging the shoreline and plugging the genny in without having to have the engine running which is more noisy than the genny’s I’ve been looking at.

 

I saw the Kipor range and they are definitely a better price than the Honda’s but then Honda has a 5 year guarantee which warrants the increased cost.

 

What’s a girl to do!  I think I need a boyfriend who can make these decisions for me :D

 

Monday,2 September, 2013
1:10 pm
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Lady Isoult Tibby-Cattistock said
 

What’s a girl to do!  I think I need a boyfriend who can make these decisions for me :D
 

And being a girl you would allow him to make the decision for you and then decide on something else!

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Monday,2 September, 2013
2:52 pm
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Lady Isoult Tibby-Cattistock said
I’m not after the cheapest solution;  I’m more for an easy everything will work option.  I think I was liking the genny option as it would have been a case of unplugging the shoreline and plugging the genny in without having to have the engine running which is more noisy than the genny’s I’ve been looking at.

 

I saw the Kipor range and they are definitely a better price than the Honda’s but then Honda has a 5 year guarantee which warrants the increased cost.

 

What’s a girl to do!  I think I need a boyfriend who can make these decisions for me :D

 

The easy everything will work with flexibility option is to have both built-in inverter (or Combi which has charger and inverter integrated) as well as a generator, as in my first reply. It may be simpler to accept that your washing machine could only be run from the generator since a large inverter, bigger battery bank and probably a larger mains charger would be needed otherwise.

Regarding generator choice, I bought my Kipor IG2600 with LPG conversion fitted and 12 month warranty from Sail and Trail after speaking to them at the Crick boat show last year. Since they sell both Honda and Kipor generators, I felt their opinion was not excessively biased when they told me reliability wise there was nothing between them. They did admit the Honda was mechanically superior but pointed out the all important electronics came from the same source.

I have no reason so far to be disappointed with my choice especially as for half the price I have a considerably more powerful (2300 v 1600 watts continuous) generator than the Honda EU20i equivalent. I will admit its noisier than the Honda though when driven hard and a little heavier, not surprising given the extra performance. 

The Hyundai range I linked to seem to claim quieter running. One of their larger models would probably be needed to power your Bosch washer/dryer though.

Regards – Richard –
Ecky Thump

Monday,2 September, 2013
6:09 pm
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Oh, Paul, all girls aren’t the same :D

 

Thanks for all your input fellas; it’s been inspirational.  Now to toss them about in my head and take the plunge.

 

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